Damtew Dessalegne: Refugees have not been able to integrate fully, and that is the most difficult challenge within Armenian asylum system

ArmInfo’s Interview with Mr. Damtew Dessalegne, Representative of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) in Armenia, on the occasion of the World Refugee Day

• by Oksana Musaelyan

• Sunday, June 24, 18:25

 

What is the state of refugee situation in the world after the turmoil in the Arab world, and how does the UNHCR manage to regulate the problem of refugees?

 

The state of the worlds’ refugees and other displaced population is very disquieting. Last year, 2011, saw the displacement and the pursuing hardship and difficulties of nearly 43 million people worldwide, of whom 15.2 million refugees, 26.5 internally displaced within their own countries. New displaced persons in 2011 run 4.3 million, so many people abandoned of their homes in such a short period of time, resulting enormous human suffering. It was difficult in 2011 for us, for humanitarian workers from the UN, other international and Governmental organizations to cope with this massive human displacement. Humanitarian workers are dealing with internally displaced in countries like Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen, Iraq, where the security situation is extremely difficult and that causes serious risks for the humanitarian workers. Some people are trying to address the needs of the most vulnerable population but at the same time putting their own lives at risks.

 

How do the asylum countries accepting refugees manage to solve the problems?

 

Europe as a whole received last year around 327 thousand asylum applications, if you add North America, Australia, Japan, all industrialized countries combined, they received less than the number of refugees in one single refugee camp in Kenya. What does this mean? It means, unless there is an effective burden sharing between the rich and the poor, nations sharing responsibilities, then refugees and internally displaced will suffer and this effective responsibility sharing mechanism is not in place. Yes, we are UNHCR as a leading UN agency for refugees, we have received generous support from our donors to provide needed assistance, our budget this year is 3.6 billion US dollars, but the human needs still much greater than the resources. The difficulty that those countries in the developing world caring the heaviest task of meeting the needs of the most vulnerable people, at the same time in the industrialized countries we see more restrictive asylum polices more and more shifting the burden again to the South if you like, which is already overwhelmed by large numbers. This is what UNHCR has to contend with.

 

How do you estimate the situation with refugees in Armenia? The majority of refuges in the country are those who came to Armenia from Azerbaijan as a result of the Karabakh conflict… Most of them have already been naturalized.

 

Armenia has done a very good job in resolving refugee problems, responding to arrival of 360 thousand refugees at the time when Armenia had to deal with multiple problems, earthquake, new independent state, difficult economic situation, that’s really deserves highlighting because it is important. Of those who came that time, right now there is 2000 remaining as refugees, even that is a rough estimated and the figure could be less. What happened to the rest? Many have become citizens, almost 90 thousand due to official figures. Many others moved onto other countries like other Armenian citizens. Almost the same with Iraqis, around 1000 who came to Armenia in 2006-2009 the majority have acquired Armenian citizenship and many others after becoming citizens of Armenia and even before have left the country to join family members, relatives and some other European states.

 

It seems they get passports in order to leave the country…

 

Economic and social conditions of the country are not able to integrate them, but again how many Armenians are leaving every year - 30 000? So, 30000 Armenians are traveling abroad to improve their work, their lives, so the situation with refugees is not different. This is economic situation, if employment is difficult, if they cannot manage and take care of themselves, then they look for opportunities elsewhere. It would be great if refugees once given the status remain here, integrate and become fully contributing members to the society.

 

So, do you think that even those refugees who did acquire the Armenian citizenship still could not integrate in the society?

 

Integration at the legal cultural level is much easier especially for those of Armenian ethnicity. Problem is at the economic level. Yes, I can say that refugees from Azerbaijan , from Iraq , and the most recent ones very few, have not been able to integrate fully, and that is the most difficult challenge within the Armenian asylum system. Refugees are accepted, well received and registered, documented, their status documented, then what? Generally they are left on their own with very little practical support mechanisms, we do what we can within the resources available to us but there is not meaningful integration program from the state, including organization of low cost course such as language training, that is the starting point to support refugees to integrate, even for ethnic Armenians. We have done quite a lot as far as UNHCR is concerned, significant housing projects to supporting educational institutions and hospitals but now we are consolidating after 20 years of activities in Armenia. So it is time to focus our primary function which is assisting the Government to further develop and strengthen legal framework for the protection of refugees.

 

Recently Armenian Ambassador to Switzerland Charles Aznavour met the High Commissioner Antonio Guterres to discuss the initiative on the refugees’ housing problems in Armenia , as a follow up to the donor conference last year. What kind of help can UNHCR provide to the Government of Armenia in this issue?

 

The Government organized the donor conference last May, inviting High Commissioner to come and participate in the conference, support the initiative. The High Commissioner kindly agreed to do so; he came although it was a very busy period because of the crisis linked to the Arab Spring. But he came nevertheless because he felt it was important to support the Government of Armenia, sensitizing the donors, development agencies to provide the support needed for transition for humanitarian assistance to development assistance. As I said before, our support is humanitarian field, to address during refugee emergencies to provide assistance for people’s essential needs and the rest in the legal field: developing asylum system, procedures and training authorities. Once the emergency is over then development actors should jump in and provide the longer terms assistance, housing, health care, micro credit projects. And the funding also comes from the different sources for development. Anyway High Commissioner addressed to the conference to support Armenia because even where there are new priorities for donors, Armenia should not be forgotten. Unfortunately, the response was not very encouraging at that time, only one country Brazil gave a very modest funding (50 thousand US dollars). The Government was requesting 40 million for 1200 families - most of them are former refugees that are citizens of Armenia now. The meeting between Ambassador Aznavour and High Commissioner is more a courtesy meeting, because they have not met recently. They had useful exchanges, on which HC briefed the Ambassador on his preoccupation and the priority globally, and again he emphasized the importance of including refugees and former refugees in the country’s national development plan.

 

Shouldn’t Governments ensure economic liability including housing prior to granting citizenship to refugees?

 

In many countries other countries one of our biggest struggles is to convince Governments to give citizenships to refugees that have been hosting 5-10 years. What governments must ensure is equal treatment, non discrimination, enjoy of fundamental human rights and freedoms.  Housing programs vary from countries to countries, in some countries they are subsidized housing schemes, in others again people are on their own. In some countries the organizations help refugees for a while until they become self-reliant, but again not for 20 years… there is time limit! The more wealth a country has the more it offers to its citizens. In Armenia it is extremely difficult for everyone, but the 96% of the existing housing stocking is privatized, is in private hands, so the Government does not even have properties to use for needy refugees, new citizens, at least temporarily until people find employment. So it is national problem, housing problem is a problem actually common in many former Soviet republics. Yes, there are some solutions to get out of it, but it is a long time.

 

Could it be that donors refused help refugees just because the problem was not presented as solely a refugee problem?

 

It is an extremely difficult situation in many countries where after 5-10 years and even more refugees still live in a camp, no opportunity to integrate, acquire citizenship. In Armenia refugees from Azerbaijan almost automatically acquired Armenian citizenship, we can’t keep on calling them refugees just because they were born somewhere else. Under international law, as soon as a refugee acquires a new citizenship he is no longer a refugee. It is not a problem, it is good, it is excellent.

 

From the scope of legal framework maybe, but from the scope of practical measures that have been taken to alleviate refugee situation prior to his acquiring the citizenship… These people have turned from refugees to aliens.

 

Citizens, not aliens. Alien is a foreigner, not a citizen of the country. They are fully fledged citizens.

 

Yes, but the key housing problem that the Government promised to solve is not solved and there are no prospects for solution.

 

But is the Government providing housing to all citizens? Is it?

 

It does not, but in the end of 1990 it said, “You get the citizenship of Armenia and we will give you a house”.

 

I don’t think any Government would say “Look, get our citizenship and we will reward that with an apartment, I think it was saying is that you should not continue to live a life of limbo because  the life of a refugee is, we will give you Armenian citizenship because you are ethnic Armenians by origin, you came back to your homeland and we know that housing is a problem for you because you came with almost nothing, and we will do everything possible within the state budget to support you. I think that was the Government was saying, and indeed for a while they had money in the state budget and there were housing purchase certificates issued, it was stopped 3 years ago, as the economic situation was tough for the country as a whole, we must admit, but in my view also they could have continued at a reduced level. They stopped almost completely. It was not the way you presented it, with all due respect… ‘Get our citizenship, we will get you a house…’ it was not that way.

 

They said, “We start a housing program, get the citizenship, it will give you advantages and you will not lose your right for compensation for the lost property and house, you are on the list, and you will get a house within the program. Some years passed, the

Government stopped to allocate budget, the program closed, the problem is not yet solved and the international donor organizations refuse to help the Government, saying that they have not really refugees, they are former refugees. Moreover, well known Gagik Yeganyan (who forbids me all the time to speak Russian) not once emphasized personally that refugees should be happy and thankful to Armenia that it provided asylum for them, and it is not liable to solve any housing problem…

 

That’s governmental policy; it spoke on its behalf not on behalf of UNHCR. Because this also creates some confusion, people saying because the Government told them even after you naturalized, you will still be treated as refugees, you will maintain the refugee rights, therefore you will say, “Why did you stop helping me?”. That’s the Government policy, the Government does not make a distinction between citizens and refugees. That’s fine, but for UNHCR this is illegal question. As UNHCR we continued to assist former refugees without making distinction.

 

But today the Government cannot get help from the donor organizations, they say you don’t have refugees, all of them are naturalized. So did the Government have legal basis to grant citizenship prior to finding funds to get solution to the major refugee problem, which is housing?

 

First, the Government took a policy decision to treat former refugees who became citizens the same as refugees, not to make a distinction. That’s Government policy decision, it is free to do what it wants, nothing to do with us, we don’t share that view. We follow international law. Now, donors, their reluctance to come and join forces and provide the requested 40 million for the housing I suspect has nothing to do with citizens/refugees status. It is not. Housing is very expensive, we know that, because we spent significant amount for building housing, cottages in Armenia for 10-15 years, and that was most of our budget, 80% of our budget over the years.

 

Donors provide humanitarian assistance for new emergencies; provide it to us, to

UNHCR, generous support to help the Government to help refugees for 20 years.

And at one point, donors are also saying: Armenia, you have to be self-sufficient, you should care for your own refugees, and people you gave citizenship, because there are new emergencies. Really we don’t have enough resources to address all these new emergencies and the old unresolved refugees’ problems, we have to chose our priorities where we have people with the greatest needs in Africa, Asia, Afghanistan and Pakistan, we have to save lives, and there is heavy burden on some of the countries because they receive half a million less than in a year. If you have need in housing for citizens, for refugees, you should place that within national development plan and then see with development organizations, World Bank, European Bank for development to see how you are able to address the problem. I think this is rational.

 

What will be in perspective for these people?

 

Among refugees who came from Azerbaijan, we have people successfully working in politics, we have members in Parliament, artists, musicians, university lecturers, business people. It is not everybody having difficult time. Yes, there are many whose lives have not improved over the years, there are elderly men and women, who live in communal centers. But the other good thing is that we do not have here in Armenia the kind of racism, discrimination and xenophobia we have in many other European countries towards refugees and foreigners in general.

 

The state is not doing enough? Yes, I agree, but at least in theory the Government also recognizes the need to solve the housing problem. I would encourage for refugees to play an organized advocacy, lobbing to ensure that the special needs of these people are addressed in different ways; it should not just be left to the Government. I am optimistic that the situation will improve with improvement of the economic and social conditions, with more stability in the political system, with democracy holding, rule of law improved, with less corruption, because the refugee situation does not exist in a vacuum, influenced by all these major factors happening in the country. We see developments in many of these major areas, I am optimistic that refugee situation will also improve but people need also to look after themselves, to do a little bit more than relying on state assistance.